Tuesday, February 9, 2010

Why Building from the Net Out is a Horrible Mistake

There's an old adage in hockey that says: You build from the net out. This adage points to the idea that Goalies are the single most important position in the NHL, and while the goaltender is a very important position, it is hard to for me to fathom the importance placed on the position. In fact, I'd say that , given the choice between a star position player and a Goalie one should just about always choose the position player as goalies are overvalued at the NHL level. This may sound odd but let me explain:

Before we get into any of this I'd like to present some numbers to you. These are the save percentages of goalies that get the majority of starts for a team. Two ends of the spectrum are shown high sv% to the left, low sv% to the right (Vesa Toskala is not a starter, I don't care what anyone says):

.931-- .908
.931-- .906
.927-- .905
.925-- .904
.924-- .903
.927/913-- .894

The first thing that you may notice is that there is not a drastic difference in these numbers. Granted, .931 to .894 looks incredible but that's 37 more goals out of 1000 shots. To put into perspective, a Sv% of .931 is only 4.1% more effective than a Sv% of .894. Again, the most effective starting goalie in the NHL is 3% better than the least effective starting goalie in the NHL and will have 28 fewer goals against.

Now, Here are the teams corresponding with the Sv%s listed above:
Florida-- Washington
Buffalo-- Pittsburgh
San Jose-- Philadelphia
Calgary-- Tampa Bay
Colorado-- Chicago
Montreal-- Columbus


The left hand column has only 1 team not in a playoff position (Florida). The right hand column also has 1 team on the outside looking in (Columbus). I guess what I'm pointing to here is that there is little correlation between Sv% and team success.

Still, when you think about it it shouldn't be that shocking. As I stated before, the most effective starter is only 4.1% better than the least effective starter. Still, the case against the importance of a goaltender gets even more damning when you consider the offensive numbers of a team and how they relate to success. We just looked at 6 of the top and bottom teams in terms of Sv%. Now we'll look at the top and bottom 6 teams in terms of shooting%.

11.9%-- 8.5%
10.6%-- 8.4%
10.5%-- 8.1%
10.4%-- 8%
10%-- 7.7%
9.9%-- 7.5%

Consider the highest shooting % compared to the lowest: .119 to .075. The highest shooting % is 58% more effective than the lowest and will score 44 more goals per 1000 shots. Remember the Goalie comparison indicated a 4.1% increase in effectiveness and a decrease of 37 goals against. Long story short, 44>37

Now here are the teams that correspond with those numbers:

Washington-- New York Rangers
Colorado-- New Jersey
Vancouver-- Toronto
San Jose-- New York Islanders
Los Angeles-- Detroit
Atlanta-- Boston


The left hand side has the teams with the 6 highest shooting%s. Of those 6 only 1 (the Atlanta Thrashers) is currently not in a playoff position. On the right there are the 6 lowest teams in terms of shooting%. Only one team is currently in a playoff position. The correlation here is incredibly strong. This isn't a phenomenon exclusive to the top 6 either. 11 of the top 15 teams in terms of shooting % are in playoff positions, 10 of the bottom 15 are not.

The real issue here isn't whether or not a goalie is important (it is important). The issue is that the disparity in effectiveness between a group of forwards, on average, is going to be greater than the disparity between two goalies. The issue is that building from the net out offers, at most, a 4.1% increase in effectiveness whereas taking the opposite route offers a 58% increase. This is why I see the goalie position as being overvalued in the NHL. This is why building from the net out is a horrible mistake.

What say you?

10 comments:

  1. one flaw in your analysis is that you are comparing a single (2 at best) player's stats to a group of player's (up to 12) stats...What would the number say if you compared only the top shooter's numbers? This would also be more appropirate since you're talking about building around "one" person

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  2. IMO, the only "stat" I pay attenton to when it comes to goalies is do they play big during big games? Do they make the big save to change momentum? Can they keep you in it when you're clinging to the one goal lead?

    During a Tuesday night game in January, I'll take a Vokoun or Luongo. When May rolls around, I'll take an Osgood or Fleury.

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  3. The ability of a goalie to change momentum in a game with one save is only eclipsed by a select few shooters in the league with the skill to single handedly embarrass an entire line of opposition forwards. Save percentage is overrated. Can the goalie take over the game? Jon Quick leads the league in wins right now. Tomas Vokoun with shutouts. Aren't those more important than save percentage at the end of the day?

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  4. Your statistical analysis misses a lot. Not including shots against is a big flaw in determining effectiveness. Sure we're talking 37 goals per thousand shots, but teams with weak defenses can give up around 3000-4000 or more shots versus around 2500 for strong defenses so the save percentage disparity becomes tangible. Not only that, how many goals on average are required to win a game? Comparing the Caps to the Panthers you see that the Panthers have only given up 10 more goals over the course of the season, that that level of starting goaltending is what is keeping Florida within 4 points of the last spot in the playoffs, that the Caps score 3.97 goals per game and that the Panthers score 2.75 goals per game, so they likely score more goals than are required to win most nights; and most importantly, that you're screwing around with the statistics to prove your point because Florida's team save percentage is .889 versus the Caps' team save percentage of .916. If only one goalie ever played for every team your analysis would've been close, but still lacking. You can't look at one goalie on every team and make a conclusion based on that. The only reason why Florida is hanging around the playoffs is strong starting goaltending, but one of the reasons why they aren't closer is because Vokoun can't play every single game. Just the same, if the Capitals gave up more goals they more than likely wouldn't have a 14 game win streak. A potent offense can overcome poor goaltending, but that usually isn't the case as most teams don't have the offense to outscore their opponents the way they would need to in order to have consistent success. Bottom line is that your assertion that goaltending is overvalued is probably wrong, or at least no where near as correct as you would like people to believe it is.

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  5. Oh, and there's more to that. Vokoun has played that vast majority of the games for the Panthers and has a record of 19-19 with a 2.34 goals against and a .931 save percentage. If you consider the old adage that the team that scores the most goals wins, then the Panthers would end up over .500 even scoring 2.75 goals per game, and if you allowed for ties rather than shootout or overtime losses, or just account for them separately, Vokoun would have a record above .500. Jose Theodore, the .908 save percentage you picked from Washington has played only 33 games and have a 2.87 gaa and the above save percentage for a record of 20-7. The Capitals have the offense to over come Theodore's mediocre performance, but are far above average in scoring at the above mentioned 3.97 goals for per game. The combined .920 save percentage of the two other goalies that have played for the Caps also helps, by the way. The Panthers score much closer to the league average for goals for per game. Bottom line is, that if the Panthers had Theodore as their starter they would be playing for a high draft pick rather than a playoff birth and the same would be true for the Capitals if they had an average offense, which most teams do. And, p.s., the Caps and Panther comparison made it easy to demonstrate this point, or else I would've found other teams to use.

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  6. It's not fair to say a goalie with a save percentage of 0.931 is only 4.1% better than one with 0.894. What's important is how many goals they give up. In that scenario the 0.931 goalie lets in 35% fewer shots (1-69/106) than the 0.894 goalie. This is the same place your 37 fewer goals comes from.

    As you say 44 goal differential is better than a 37 goal differential, but can you get those 44 goals by swithing out a single scorer like you can get 37 by switching out a goalie?

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  7. This is a classic example of matching stats to a preconceived point. The flaws in your analysis have already been pointed out, but I'm gonna repeat just one major one because it's so obvious. You're comparing performance of 1, 2 (max 3) individuals when it comes to goalies to the performance of 20+ individuals when it comes to skaters. I say 20+ because, for some, reason you're also disregarding the fact that defensemen also figure in the shooting percentage.

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  8. Because you seem to be a numbers fan I'll share what I feel are some more key stats you should look at. If the Capitals win the cup your theory at least makes more sense than it does presently but for now it's filled with holes. The biggest being that your analysis is based on potential playoff births, whereas championship teams (the criteria of which your post attempts to determine) are judged on winning championships...

    .908
    .930
    .922
    .920
    .933
    .934
    .920
    .934
    .927
    .930
    .918
    .927
    .921
    .927
    .921

    These are the Sv% for the playoff runs of the last 15 cup winning goalies... You'll notice a strong corrolation to quality sv% in this bracket of data, which coincidentally is unanimously agreed upon to be most important in hockey.

    I don't know what those team's shooting percentages are, but speculatively, from this data, it is reasonable to conclude the inverse of your analysis.

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  9. i'm trapped w/o internet access and posting from my phone. i'm posting part 2 as im not stranded from snow which will address most of your complaints. the main point of this post was that the difference b/t the top scorer to the averagr scorer is greater than that between goalies. Again, everything you guys brought up is valid and will be addressed

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  10. and yes, replacing the average scorer with a top scorer will produce a bigger difference. Again I will defend my horrible analytical flaws the best i can... but i have a feeling you guys will tear that to pieces too. thanks for the comments, btw

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